There’s two main things that really made VdGG’s music stand out at the time. Firstly, their instrumentation – their sound was based around David Jackson’s lead sax rather than guitar, and both Hugh Banton’s approach to organ and Guy Evans’ style of drumming were quite unconventional. And of course, nobody sang with the same level of power and commitment as Hammill. But secondly, and perhaps more importantly, their attitude towards playing live was quite different from the other bands you mention – whereas their prog peers would perfect their sets and strive to deliver a consistently ‘good’ show, VdGG were deliberately much more chaotic and improvisational. In many way, they were early exponents of the ‘noise aesthetic’ in music.

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When did the idea of the Rock and Role book emerged and when did you start writing it?

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After my first book Hawkwind: Days Of The Underground came out, I approached my publisher with the idea for a series of short album-based books similar to the 33 1/3 series, with Hammill’s pH7 as the one I wanted to do. That didn’t happen in the end, but it inspired me to do a much more comprehensive book on Hammill and VdGG. I began writing it at the beginning of 2023, with the first draft completed two years later. 

A good deal of VdGG related book has been published already, starting with the mighty “The Book” in 2005. What does Rock and Role bring to the fold and how different was your approach compared to the other books?

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There have books written about Hammill/VdGG in Italian, Spanish and French, but there had never been an English language biography of Hammill, which seemed faintly crazy! So that was one motivation for writing Rock and Role. But I also felt that there was so much more say about how Hammill has pursued his career and the central themes in his work. In addition, I wanted to do a deep critical appreciation of all his key albums, and try to understand what makes his music, and that of VdGG, so special and unique. 

What about the book contribution from band members and other band related people?

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At the start of the writing process, my publisher Kingmaker approached Peter to see if he would be interested in doing an interview. But while he was happy for the book to go ahead, he didn’t want to do that type of big, career-spanning interview, paricularly as he still views his career as ongoing! However, in the later stages of editing the draft, he was very helpful in answering a series of obscure questions I sent him as well as fact-checking various details. Other people I interviewed included David Jackson, Judge Smith, Graham Smith, John Ellis, Gail Colson, Gordian Troeller, and Alice. Guy Evans politely declined. Hugh Banton never got back to me.

Five years ago you released the much praised Hawkwind book Days of the Underground. Are there any points of contact between Hawkwind and VdGG history?

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In my view, lots! In the early ‘70s, they played on the same bill together a number of times, and were both into noise, chaos and volume in a way that was pretty unusual. They both featured sax as a lead instrument and later on violin. And in Hammill and Robert Calvert, they both had highly literate and distinctive frontmen interested in science fiction and in pushing the intellectual possibilities of rock – there was a mutual respect between the two, and they were also both published poets.

Van der Graaf Generator were one of the few 70s band to experience a band member releasing a solo album (Hammill’s FOOL’S MATE) quite early. Also, Hammill used to play solo shows when the band was still active. What is your take on the coexistence between the Hammill solo / VdGG band careers? 

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As is well known, VdGG had already split up for the first time when The Aerosol Grey Machine was recorded, and that album was originally intended to be a Hammill solo LP – so there’s sometimes an assumption that VdGG and Hammill albums are somehow interchangeable. But Hammill has said that when he writes, he knows which songs are for the band and which are his. Above all, he’s compelled to create and perform music, and if the band sometimes weren’t available, he would do it himself. Similarly, there have been times in his life when the existence of VdGG was incredibly important to him, but other times when it wasn’t. He’s very pragmatic in his own way.

It is an established fact that Hammill was and still is the main VdGG composer and lyricist. What Banton, Evans and Jackson added to Hammill’s writing?

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Following on from above, Hammill may be the main songwriter for the band, but VdGG tracks absolutely wouldn’t sound like VdGG if is wasn’t for Banton, Jackson and Evans. All are talented, idiosyncratic musicians bringing their specific sound to the band, and usually given as much freedom as they liked to flesh out Hammill’s songs, particularly during the Godbluff period. It’s hard to imagine Hammill’s lyrics and vision being as well served by a more conventional rock band. And in practical terms, Banton was an important arranger of the music while Evans established the various time signatures. 

What was the “discovery” that you made during the book research that you were more proud of?

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This really has to be the tracking down of Alice! She’s become this mysterious and elusive figure for fans, so it was incredible to be invited to lunch at her house, and to hear her perspective on Hammill and of course on Over.

This year marks the 50th anniversary of two VdGG albums, STILL LIFE and WORLD RECORD, as they were both released in 1976 just a few months one after the other. Still, two very different sets of songs and a substantially different sounding band…

 

Even though two of its songs were recorded during the Godbluff sessions, Still Life is the sound of a band recovering from the traumatic events surrounding their abandoned tour of Italy at the end of 1975. The theft of Hammill’s guitars had really hit him hard, compounded by the break-up of his relationship with Alice, and his dark mood certainly affected the rest of the members too. For me, Still Life is all about the terrible despair of the title track and the deep melancholy of ‘My Room’. In contrast, World Record is an album of catharsis and cutting loose from hopelessness, even if it does include one of Hammill’s greatest existential epics in ‘Meurglys III’.

Talking of WORLD RECORD, you did a wonderful job tracking down all the VdGG / PH radio and tv broadcasts. What about the Wondering promotional video? Were you able to shed some light on the shooting process and location?

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That’s a very odd film! David Jackson recalls that it was probably shot in London (rather than Canada, which has sometimes been suggested), but had no idea where that rather unusual audience had come from. It always seems to me that Hammill looks pretty impatient to be somewhere else during the film! 

After the 2005 reunion, VdGG released five studio albums: in your opinion, do they stand to level of the 70s production of the band?

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Not completely, and I think their sound is definitely diminished by the absence of Jackson after Present. On saying that, I think that Do Not Disturb, their last album to date, is the strongest of the five – ‘Go’ in particular is one of their finest, most moving songs. ‘Every Bloody Emperor’ and ‘Nutter Alert’ from Present are similarly worthy of standing alongside their classic ‘70s songs.

One of the most debated topics in VdGG history is Jackson shocking departure at the end of 2005, a fact that no one officially explained yet. According to your research, what led to the split between David and the rest of the band?

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As with any event like this, there’s probably not one single reason, though clearly a moment came when it was decided ‘enough is enough’. Guy Evans described the band as ‘an unstable entity’ and it’s worth bearing in mind the strength of character of each member. But I think the remaining trio felt that Jackson didn’t have the same commitment to the reunion as they did, which ultimately made it impossible for the band to operate. For his own part, Jackson felt they were in danger of spiralling out of control again, both financially and spiritually.

I suppose you attended a number of VdGG and PH live shows: what are your memories of those events?

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I’m too young (just!) to have experienced VdGG live in the ‘70s, but the shows I’ve seen since their reunion have all been special, whether it’s seeing the trio wrestle their way through ‘A Plague Of Lighthouse-Keepers’ and ‘Flight’ in one sitting or watching them perform ‘Every Bloody Emperor’ on the day that Russia invaded Ukraine. But the first reunion show at the Royal Festival Hall in London in 2005 was an incredibly emotional event, both for the audience and for the band – who thought this would ever come again?!

Your book seems to be a perfect companion to the PH box that was released a couple of months ago. According to you, is there a part of VdGG listeners who still haven’t fully appreciated Peter’s solo production and could your book help them to fill the gap?

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I think there’s quite a lot of people out there who would describe themselves as diehard Hammill fans, yet haven’t really kept up with his output, with the mid-‘80s often cited as a cut-off point.  Of course, he’s recorded some terrific material since then, but I have to confess that I wasn’t myself familiar with it all before writing Rock and Role. So while the book concentrates on the Charisma period, I felt it was also important to write about the rest of his career as well, and highlight some particular entry points into his more recent back catalogue. Albums such as Roaring Forties (1994), This (1998) and Thin Air (2009) are really worth investigating, while 2017’s From The Trees, his last original album to date, is a striking statement from an artist at this stage of his career. 

How much an album like NADIR’S BIG CHANCE is relevant in the whole rock music history?

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It’s most relevant as a restatement of, as Hammill would put it, the ‘three-chord trick’ at the heart of rock – it’s what he wanted to reconnect back to from his youth. And in ‘Two Or Three Spectres’, he absolutely nailed how the music industry still continues to operate to this day.

If you should suggest a VdGG album and a PH album to start with to a newbie, what would that be and why?

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For me, Godbluff distils the essence of VdGG and showcases everything that’s brilliant about them without being too sad, scary or abstruse! For the hardcore prog fan, The Silent Corner And The Empty Stage is the best place to start for Hammill neophytes – if your jaw isn’t on the floor after ‘A Louse Is Not A Home’, perhaps Hammill isn’t for you! For the more general alt music fan, pH7 is a wonderful primer, from sci-fi post-punk to strange but heartfelt ballads.